On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Dr. Ben Phillips about making family discipleship practical through the everyday rhythms we already share with our children.
Ben introduces the TEACH framework—Travel time, Eating time, Arise time, Closing time, and Holiday time drawn from Deuteronomy 6.
Together, we explore simple ways to build faith conversations into car rides, meals, mornings, bedtimes, and celebrations without turning discipleship into an overwhelming checklist. We also discuss the importance of modeling a genuine walk with God, giving children grace as they grow, adjusting our approach through changing seasons, and starting with one sustainable rhythm.
Whether we are beginning family discipleship for the first time or looking to strengthen existing habits, this conversation offers practical encouragement for helping the next generation know, own, and live out their faith.
Topics Covered in This Week’s Podcast
02:59 Introduction: The origin of Dr. Phillips’ desire for discipleship
13:52 Applying TEACH wisely, but not to excess
28:34 Making TEACH work in your unique household
45:49 Encouragement for parents just beginning intentional discipleship
Resources From This Podcast
Dr. Phillips’ Website
Adventures in Odyssey
Jonathan Park Audio Adventures
Article- Am I Overdiscipling My Children?
Article- Five Reasons to Make Dinner an Event
Article- The Power of the Red Plate
Article- Nine Elements of an Effective Donut Date
Podcast Transcript:
Chap Bettis: I’m Chap Bettis, and you’re listening to The Disciple-Making Parent, where we seek to equip parents and churches to pass the gospel to their children. Do you struggle to apply family discipleship in the home? How to teach and talk about the gospel? Well, you’re not alone. What if I told you one acronym could change your perspective in your home? Well, stay tuned to learn that acronym.
Hi, my name is Chap Bettis, and I’m the author of The Disciple-Making Parent. And you want to pass your faith to your children or grandchildren. That’s why you’re listening to this podcast. You want to have faith conversations, and you agree you’re called to teach the next generation. But it can feel so overwhelming and complicated. What do you do? Well, you’re going to love this conversation with Ben Phillips. A mutual friend connected us and said, “You guys have to meet each other. You are so like-minded.” And once I reviewed his material, I loved it. I’m sold on it, and I think you’re going to find this podcast incredibly practical and incredibly helpful.
Well, Dr. Ben Phillips is the senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Murphy, Texas. He’s also a speaker and author on this topic of family discipleship. Before that, he was a marriage and family ministry coordinator at the Arkansas Baptist Convention. Most importantly, he’s been married for 32 years to Karen, and they have three children, now in their mid-20s.
Well, before we start, I want to remind you about the resource that we give away for free, that we love giving away the Disciple-Making Parent audiobook for free. We’re on a mission to equip parents and grandparents to pass the gospel to their children. We want to raise young people who become not only disciples, but disciple-makers, standing as salt and light in this world. So head on over to thedisciplemakingparent.com for your free audiobook. In addition, before we start, I just want to remind you, our ministry is totally dependent on God’s people for our financial support. You’re able to listen to this because there are partners who are underwriting the ministry. Over 80% of our budget comes from people just like you. We would love to see parents and grandparents and pastors who want to leave a legacy to undergird this ministry. So consider becoming a monthly or a yearly donor. Head on over to the disciplemakingparent.com/partner. But for now, let’s think about a simple way that we can bring faith conversations into our home.
Chap: Well, it’s a joy to have Dr. Ben Phillips on The Disciple-Making Parent podcast.
Dr. Ben Phillips: Thank you, Chap. Appreciate the opportunity to connect with you and your guests.
Chap: Well, let’s start by talking a little bit about your family discipleship journey. So obviously this is your heart, but you haven’t always been where you are now, and you’ve learned some lessons along the way. So start by telling about that.
Dr. Phillips: You know, Chap, when my wife and I got married over 30 years ago, she ended up getting pregnant and went to the hospital, and we were so well prepared when we brought this baby girl home. Like, we had plans worked out. We’d been so well-equipped and trained. . . Not really. And I remember this experience of my wife getting pregnant and then bringing this baby home, and we’re like, “Oh my goodness, what now?” And we don’t do enough training, especially in the church, to equip parents for those new seasons. Like, you have this life here in your hands and in your home for at least the next 17 to 18 years. Now what? And so it was really kind of a learning on the fly kind of experience for us, in fact.
So I grew up in a Christian home, grew up going to church. Heard the gospel a lot of times. But we really didn’t talk about the faith at home a whole lot. Now I am thankful for my parents, especially my dad, because both of my grandfathers, they were rarely involved in church. They went special occasions. So they did take a step forward in their generation in being regularly involved in church, which I’m thankful for. My wife, similar kind of experience, grew up going to church, not a whole lot of family discipleship going on in the home. So honestly, we didn’t know what it looked like, smelled like, felt like, sounded like to do family discipleship. So we did what we had seen modeled. We took our children to church, and we would pray over meals, and we would pray at bedtime with them and occasionally read some little devotionals.
And in the midst, I was a full-time collegiate minister, spent a lot of time discipling college students, and one of the things I discovered with these college students is they got to college, and they didn’t know how to study and apply the Bible. They didn’t know how to share the gospel. They didn’t know what they believed. They didn’t have any kind of regular quiet time rhythm, and they’d come from great churches and Christian homes. And I’m like, “What’s the disconnect here?” And so part of my take was the churches they were part were doing some great things when they were on campus, but I think there was a struggle on the home front for parents to really be intentional in discipling their children. So we were having our kids in this same kind of moment, and I began to reflect and pray, “Okay, God, what do you want Karen and I to do in our home with our kids so that at seventeen, eighteen, whenever we launch them, they do know what they believe and why, and that they own their faith, and that they have a vibrant walk with Jesus? They know how to share the gospel, and they’re engaged in serving in the local church?”
But where it all kind of came to a head was we took a group of college students to… It was kind of, think of a Christian Woodstock. We took them to One Day 2003 in Sherman, Texas. And picture twenty, thirty thousand college students camped out in an open field, worship, preaching. And the theme for that One Day experience came from the Book of Joel. I can’t remember exactly what passage. And so to start off this One Day experience, I thought, “I’m just going to read through the Book of Joel.” It’s a short book I got three verses in and I stopped, where Joel 1:3 says, “Tell it to your children and let your children tell it to their children and to the next generation.” And I really felt like it was just kind of a Holy Spirit moment where God’s Spirit really began to work in my heart in learning what the scripture really says about passing the faith along to the next generation. So I had a study Bible in hand, and I was just back and forth, different cross-references, looking through the scriptures, and that’s really what I spent most of the day doing in that One Day experience discovering what God’s Word had to say about family discipleship. I discovered Deuteronomy 6:4-9, Genesis 18:19, and Joshua 3 and 4, and Psalm 78, and just all these different passages in the New Testament, 2 Timothy 3:14-17 and Ephesians 6. And I began to think, “How did I miss this?”
I’d gone through seminary, grown up going to church, but it was really one of those, for me, kind of like a Martin Luther kind of experience. After I read this, I can do no other. Like, this is something that I must figure out and embrace and obey the scriptures and apply in our home. And so after that experience, Karen and I really began to pray and seek the Lord, and one of the things we did was we memorized Deuteronomy 6:4-9 and began to ask God the question, “God, how do you want us to put this into practice in our home?” And, and we began to, let me just say, experiment a lot because we didn’t have a model to look to. And there were some things I would say we would try and it went well. Other things royally flopped. But we didn’t throw in the towel. We just kept learning and growing.
Proverbs 24:32 says, “I applied my heart to what I observed, learned a lesson from what I saw.” And so we learned a lot of lessons along the way in what do, what does it look like to disciple our children. And so in that was the Deuteronomy 6 passage that was really what God ingrained in our hearts, and I’m so thankful for that passage. And it’s, it’s motivated me in so many different ways since that time. But the key part, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home, when you walk along the road, when you lie down, when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands, bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.” And I just began to wrestle with that, “Okay, God, uh, help us figure this out in our unique family, our unique rhythms, our unique children. What does this look like?” And so Karen and I began to really hone in. “Talk about them when you sit at home, walk along the road, lie down, and get up.” And over the course of time, we developed this TEACH acronym out of that passage. And so T is for travel time. Moses says, “Talk about them when you walk along the road.” By the way, it’s mentioned again in Deuteronomy 11 and mentioned again in Proverbs chapter 6, and so you see this repetition. And so we began to wrestle with, okay, what does this look like as we travel? Moses says, “Talk about them when you sit at home.” And so the E in the TEACH acronym is for eating time. And we ate a lot together as a family. We travel together a lot as a family. And then the A in the acronym is arise time. Moses says, “Talk about them when you get up.” And so that was one of the things we wrestled with. C is for closing time, and Moses says, “Talk about them when you lie down.” And by the way, that was one of the areas, I’m not a nighttime person, I’m a morning time person, one of the areas I really struggle with. And then the H is holiday time. If you look later on in the passage in verses 20-25, there’s a reference to the Exodus and the Passover, a holiday that Jews still celebrate to this day. And you look throughout the scriptures, you see all these different references to holidays and the way that, God worked in those specific holidays that they would celebrate and remember the way he worked. And so that was really kind of the foundation of our beginning journey in discipling our children.
Chap: That’s great. That’s a very helpful overview. So you have three children, right? And then they’re… Do I have this right, they’re in their 20s now?
Dr. Phillips: Yes.
Chap: And so how old were they? Was it really in infancy that you started thinking about this?
Dr. Phillips: So I can’t say we started from the very beginning. When we started this journey, our kids were five, three, and zero. The last one wasn’t born. So really, our youngest, he didn’t know any different as far as these family discipleship rhythms in our home. And really, even the middle child, he was three when we started this. And so it was a key time. I always like to encourage parents, it’s much easier in this family discipleship journey the earlier you start. Not that you can’t start as they get older, but it’s just a little more challenging to kind of reset the direction. And so the earlier you can start, the better. It’s just kind of like investing for retirement. Like, the earlier you start, the more consistent you are, the bigger dividends it tends to pay over the course of your lifetime and theirs.
Chap: Great. Well, one of the things I think with parents is that they get overwhelmed. You can’t… You use the idea of a rhythm. “Well, how am I going to do this? This feels overwhelming.” It’s kind of a religious word, discipleship. And, you know, one of the things I say in my seminars is, “Well, if you teach a child to play soccer, you’re actually discipling.” You’re, saying, “Well, I love soccer, and here’s how you do it,” you know? And so similarly, we’re saying we love Jesus, and here are some things we want to know about Him and act towards Him.
Let’s drill down or double-click on that whole TEACH acronym, because I I love that. You went through that quickly, but I want to go through that slowly. So T is for travel time. So Deuteronomy 6, when we walk along the road, and as you said in one of your articles, we don’t walk along the road many times. It’s usually in the car. Eating time, when we sit down and arise, when we’re getting up. C is for closing. You know, as I was rehearsing this, I was like, “Oh man, what’s the C? What’s the C?” So okay, we got the C for closing, and H is for holidays. So let’s go through those just a little bit. One of the things you had was a handout on just sort of different ways that you can go through. So, so let’s think about what are some things you did and maybe other people have done in the travel time. So how can we redeem this time? And maybe your heart comes through, but maybe you can also speak, even as we’re talking, we’re going to go through each one. But I’ve written an article on being careful that you don’t over-disciple. Like everything’s got to be about Jesus, Jesus. We’ve got two minutes here, we got to talk about Jesus, you know? So on the one hand, I want you to talk about how you might have used these different times, but on the other hand, maybe you can talk about other things you did so it’s not like all Dad talks about is Jesus, or Mom talks about. So go for it.
Dr. Phillips: Yeah. Great. So T is for travel time. Talk about them when you walk along the road, drive. Most families spend a lot of windshield time in the vehicles. And so it’s a part of every family’s rhythm. And so one of the things I try to communicate to parents is this isn’t adding anything new to your schedule. This is already a part of your normal family schedule. Just think a little bit differently about how to better utilize that time. So one of the very simple things that my wife really kind of initiated was, “Hey, every time we get in the vehicle, let’s pray.” And so we would start that. And we would take turns praying as we were headed to baseball practice, and pray that we’d have a good time on the way to school. We did public school for a season, and so we were praying on the way, and on the way to church. We even prayed any time we had guests with us, and I’ll never forget, there was one time we were traveling to a basketball game, and the parents said they couldn’t take their kid, can they ride with us? And so we’re driving along, and I said to this kid, “One of the things we do when we travel is we pray.” I said, “You’re welcome to pray with us. Don’t feel like you have to, but you’re welcome to.” And so everybody prayed. I don’t think he did. And then it got to me, I was driving, and so kind of jokingly I said, “Okay, Karen, I want you to grab the wheel while I close my eyes and pray.” And I wish you could have seen the reaction on this kid, like his eyes. You can pray with your eyes open. In fact, if you’re the driver, I encourage you to do that. But one of the things I would try to do is have fun with this. Discipling your children doesn’t have to always be so super serious. Make it enjoyable and fun. And depending on your personality type, there are times I had to listen to my wife. Sometimes she’d say, you know, the Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3, speaking to dads, don’t be over-bearing, don’t exasperate your children. And so I think dads sometimes can be overbearing, and that’s where if you’re married, you really need to listen to your spouse to give you some wisdom and soften things up a little bit.
And so we had a variety of different things we did. We’d listen to Adventures in Odyssey. We listened to Jonathan Park. A lot of times it was just Christian radio. And in fact, I remember one time, of course I’m a pastor, I’m always frequently listening to a sermon tape. I’ll never forget, I was listening to a sermon series on marriage by Tony Evans, and we were taking a road trip, and I thought everybody was asleep. That’s why I was listening to it. When we stopped at the gas station, my daughter piped up and said, “Dad, what he was saying about marriage and how husbands need to treat their wives, there’s some things you need to learn from that guy.” And so noted. And so your kids are always listening and paying attention, even though you may not think they are. So travel time can really be as easy as turning on a Christian radio station or playing some worship music or scripture memory songs or praying, even if it’s just one person praying. There were times we memorized scripture as we’re driving along. And did we do it every time we popped in the car? Not so much, but there was a pretty regular rhythm for us in that.
Chap: That’s great. That’s, that’s very helpful. I think even today’s sort of the modern parent, and this is where starting earlier is better, is you’ve got to establish sort of this community time, not this is the time for the individual to veg out on their electronics. And so you and I are the same generation. We would probably going to church, we would listen to, when there were longer trips, there were some of those same cassette tapes. Remember those? So kind of the same thing. But I think this idea of what you’re saying is as a parent, you’re not adding things into your schedule already. This is an opportunity. You’ve got a captive audience, and even just asking. . . We used to ask what you learned in Sunday school on the way home. And those “count.” We want to engage. So that’s really, those are really good. And just this idea of wanting to be deliberate with this travel time. Not always, not in an oppressive way, but I’m redeeming the time for myself personally and our kids, and it builds. I think we lose when we let them individualize with their electronics, we lose the community of the family that’s there. Not to say that there wouldn’t be times where we’re like, “Okay, you guys can use your electronics if you have them.” But there is a right, a privilege to say, “Hey, we’re doing this together as a family.”
Well, talk about about eating. We know that blesses kids, just to eat together.
Dr. Phillips: So Moses talks, he says, “Talk about them when you sit at home.” And so eating time is a significant rhythm for most families. However, I think a lot of families struggle just to eat together, sit and around the table with TV and media put aside. And so I would say to families, if you don’t have any kind of regular eating time rhythm where you’re eating together around the dinner table with everything off, I would say that’s a start. Even if you don’t talk about spiritual things, just eat together. In fact, when God got ahold of my heart in that, I remember I’d just read an article that, and there have been a lot of studies done on this, that families who consistently eat together around the table, their children have reduced incidences of abuse, addiction, and all of the kinds of aberrant behavior just because of some of the healthy relationships that are cultivated by eating meals together. And so I’d read this article, and we’re sitting down for a dinner meal, and I looked at my children. I said, “I want you to know, because we are eating a meal together, I am preventing you from becoming an alcoholic, a drug addict, and just some crazy psycho person.” And of course, they looked at me like, Okay, what has Dad read here recently? And but we talked about that, how important it is to eat together. And so one of the things that we would frequently do was high-low. What was the high point of your day, low point of your day? This is the thing I love about that. You know how much prep time that takes me? Zero. I just ask the question. And so normally, my wife or I would initiate it, and one of the things we would do after we would ask the question and one of the children would respond, then it was their responsibility to ask somebody else. And so even at an early age, that was part of our strategy to equip them with some practical experiences of initiating and engaging others at the table. And so we would go around and share high-low experiences. In fact, my wife was like, “You know, I learned so many new things about my husband,” because what do most of us do? “Hey, it was a good day. I did this, this, this.” But I really didn’t wrestle with some of those heart issues. Hey, what was really a high point or what really was a low point?
Again, I would reiterate, whenever we had guests in our home, we would involve them in this process. I remember one kid, his name was Clayton. I don’t think he had much of a home life, because he was down at our house playing all the time. And if it was around dinnertime, we’d invite him in for dinner. And I remember the first time we invited him in, we were eating and said, “Hey, Clayton, we do this high-low thing. You’re welcome to participate. Don’t feel like you have to.” But he jumped right in. And a few weeks later, he was playing down at our house, and we invited him in. Even before we sat down, Clayton said, “Hey, Mr. Ben, are we going to do that high-low thing?” And so my take on Clayton was, I don’t know if he had a family where people really asked, “Hey, Clayton, how was your day?” And so you never know how important it is, when you have guests or your kids’ friends in the house, don’t stop what is a part of your normal rhythm. You get an opportunity to invest in them, too. We did some things like a blue plate special. You can use whatever kind of plate you want, and everybody had to say something nice or affirming to that person. Of course, if you’ve got boys, sometimes you’ve got to coach them a little bit, because sometimes they might say something that is actually a veiled jab. “Well, you’re not as ugly as so-and-so.” Well, you’re really missing the point. And so, it is a time to coach your kids and teach them how to really say affirming things to others. And so we did some different things in the evening when we would have evening meals, and we actually had breakfast meals together that we did consistently, and we did some catechism stuff around breakfast that was really helpful, especially for younger children.
Chap: Man, there’s so much good, and I was even forgetting about all the good things you’re commenting on. You started with just eating a meal together, and I’ve got an article on mealtime as an event. And I know families where they sort of let their kids graze. You know, everybody doesn’t sit down as at an event, and now we’re interacting as a family, and those are all those studies that just show how much of a blessing that is, and then even as you’re correcting your boys. Although, supposedly that’s how guys interact, the insulting. Women would never do that. “Oh, your hair’s ugly.” Guys know that’s a term of affection, where for ladies, that’s not a term of affection. But all that’s happening, and you’re building memories. And yeah, there is a time. I love the connection. We did the red plate. You did the blue plate special. Same thing, just making that a special time. And yeah, there’s often emphasis. This is a good time if you’ve got something like a devotional or a catechism, this is a great time to do that.
I do wonder if parents realize- The way I’ve said it to families is that when you do a sport or when you do something, there is nothing free. You’re giving up something. You need to realize that there is time to do this, and we’re going to give it up. But one of those things you’re giving up is this less-rushed life where you can actually have a meal or even if there’s a tradition on the weekends or something like that.
Dr. Phillips: You know, I remember a pastor friend of mine, he was a bi-vocational pastor, extremely busy, and was hardly ever at home with his kids for meals. But he did have a little control of his schedule, and Thursday mornings were one morning every week where he stayed at home and made breakfast and did breakfast with the family. It was just one day a week, but it’s something that his kids still remember to this day. And so that’s where you’ve got to think about your own unique family and wrestle with, okay, what does this look like in applying Deuteronomy 6 in our home in the best way that we can?
Chap: That’s good. Well, let’s move on to “Arise.” So when you get up, Deuteronomy 6 says… What sort of rhythms did you get at? Maybe with this is can overlap with “Closing.” But from some of the articles I looked at that you’ve written, it seems like you’ve done a good job in helping your kids read the Bible, you did this together as a family. But, man, I tell you, mornings are crazy sometimes. And so talk a little bit about that.
Dr. Phillips: Honestly, I think this is probably the most difficult area for most families, because most mornings, whether your kids are in public school, private school, home school, most mornings are just kind of chaotic, and most families are just trying to get out the door. But for us, it was really a sweet spot for a significant season. And so my spiritual journey, I can’t say that I really started spending time alone in the word of God till I was 20, and I made a decision to trust in Christ at the age of 10. But it wasn’t until somebody discipled me and helped me learn how to develop that discipline of a daily quiet time, and so that’s something I wanted for my children. I wanted them, at a much younger age, to develop this love and discipline for reading the Bible. So as they were younger, I would read the Bible to them.
And one of my favorite experiences was, I would get up early. I was drinking a cup of coffee, sitting in a recliner, reading my Bible, and my youngest would get up and he would say, “Daddy, milk with chocolate, please, some lot.” And so I would get up, go to the refrigerator, do some milk, squeeze some chocolate milk in there, and shake up the sippy cup, and then come back to the recliner. And he’d get up in my lap, and then he’d say, “Daddy, read the Bible to me some little.” And so he would patiently sit there in my lap, hold his sippy cup, and let me read a short passage of scripture, and then he would take that sippy cup and he would down it, and then a few minutes later, he was back off asleep. And so it was just kind of a short moment, and I didn’t teach him to say those things. Those just kind of naturally came out.
So I think it’s important, parents, to let your children catch you reading the Bible. They need to see you. And, and I think it’s best if you have a physical copy of the scriptures so that they know, Okay, they’re not playing a game on their phone or they’re not reading news or whatever… Let them see you physically reading the Bible, and because normally they want to imitate what they see their parents doing.
And so we would read to them, and then as they got to the point where they could identify words, we would have them point out, “Okay, here’s Jesus, J-E-S-U-S. You see that? Okay, where do you see Jesus here in this paragraph?” And so then as they got more familiar with how to read, I would read a sentence, they would read a sentence, then I would read a paragraph, they would read a paragraph. And so it was kind of a gradual process with them, kind of helping them walk through that. And so one of the things that we did was we all got on the same Bible reading plan. And so, in fact, this morning, we read Luke chapter one. I read Luke chapter one, I know my wife did, I know my three kids did. And in fact, it’s a plan our whole church does, so First Baptist Murphy members, most of them, if they’re reading this plan should have read Luke chapter one. And so we would each read those passages separately on our own, and then when we would come to the breakfast table, we’d take turns, “Hey, what did you learn in your Bible reading this morning?” And then they would ask somebody, “Hey, what did you learn?” Because I, I’ll be honest, the number of times where I’ve read my Bible and 30 minutes later, sometimes I can’t even remember, okay, what text was it? And so this, it was a helpful rhythm. It enabled us to really help them learn how to study and apply the scripture and learn different things. And I learned a lot of things from my children. Like, Oh, I didn’t see that in the text. Thank you for sharing that.
And there were times when my children, for whatever reason, wouldn’t read their Bible. And so I had to make a choice as a dad. Am I going to say, “You need to read your Bible”? I took the approach to be a little more gracious. “Hey, I, I know sometimes we have some bad mornings. Maybe try to catch up and read later on in the day. Or if not, hey, start with the next chapter tomorrow morning, and it’ll be good.” And so, I think parents have to be real careful really trying to be too authoritarian in forcing their children to do things. We don’t want our children to grow up having a disdain for reading the Bible because they were forced. We want them to read the Bible because they really want to. They want to learn about God and how to walk with him. And so you have to be patient with your children. Sometimes they will do it just to please you. That’s okay temporarily, but ultimately, we want them to read the Bible because they really want to please God, and they want to do what His word says. And so it was a process. We journaled through some of that, and even when the kids were young and couldn’t write, we’d have them draw pictures of what they saw. And in fact, one of my favorite pictures, one of my sons has a picture he drew, and there was a head on a platter. It was John the Baptist’s head. Now, I don’t know what kind of spiritual meaning that had, but as a boy reading the Bible, that was a cool story. And so we went with it. Like, okay, that was what he journaled about this morning.
And so arise time, typically I don’t encourage parents to start there unless that’s already a part of their rhythm. Start in an area where you’re going to be more likely to hit a home run, and it’s going to be easier for your family. But each family is unique and different. One of the guys that I discipled, he was a fireman, and he was up and out of the house before anybody else thought about getting up. So he thought, “How am I going to do this arise time thing with my family?” So whatever he would read in the morning before he went into work, he would write on a whiteboard or a piece of paper and leave it on the kitchen table, “Hey, this is a verse I read this morning,” or, “Here’s something I’ve read.” And so when the wife and kids got up, they could see that, okay, even though dad wasn’t there, there was still a connection. And so that’s where you have to think creatively sometimes. What is this rhythm going to look like in our unique family situation?
Chap: That’s good. Did that continue into teenage years as well, sort of talking about that? Were they reading the same things?
Dr. Phillips: Yeah. So fortunately, it did. Our kids continued to read the Bible pretty consistently through their teenage years. I’d have to go back and look at some of my notes, but there was probably about a 10-year span where we had a regular rhythm of eating together around the table and dialoguing about what we read. And then there was a certain time where it was a little more challenging, our morning schedules, and so sometimes we would text, “Hey, this is something I learned this morning. What did you learn?” And we would send it to the family group text. And so there again, we tried not to be too overly dogmatic with our kids because we really wanted them to have a love for doing that.
Chap: Thank you. What I appreciated about what you said is, there’s a plan, there’s accountability, but not authoritarian accountability, but there’s also… When you read with a pencil or pen in your hand, or when you might have to share something at the breakfast table, you’re, you’re like, Okay, Lord, what are you trying to teach me or what can be helpful?So that’s just built in. I love that. And then, the same thing at night. And you said you came to Christ at 10 and could not get into a regular rhythm till you were 20. I would say it was the same way with me. I think my devotions in high school, because of a very demanding schedule, long travel time, I would read something very simple at night. And so I think certainly maybe during the teenage years, that was also acceptable. Were you going to say something on that?
Dr. Phillips: Yeah. So for closing time, I’m a morning person. I’m not a night person. That was probably the area we really struggled with the most, and I’ll be honest, there were times when I would plan to have some sort of family devotion in the evening. I’d pull a book off the shelf and read a story and a scripture, and it was just chaotic. And there were times I would say, “Y’all, just go, just go to bed.” And honestly, sometimes that’s better than trying to force it. And so, again, this is where I had to really listen to my wife and not be too dogmatic in my approach. Of course, when the kids were younger, that was kind of a sweet spot, and it is for most parents who have young kids because they get in this rhythm, Hey, read a Bible story to me. Pray with me. And just a word of caution, parents, when you start some of these rhythms, especially at a young age, they’re going to call you out on the carpet if you forget some of these rhythms. They’re like, Hey, what about this? Which is really a good thing, but sometimes when you’re dead dog tired, it’s challenging to exude that grace and patience with your children, but it is definitely worth it.
Chap: And then what happens when they’re teenagers? But they don’t want to have any conversations till after midnight, you know? I’m lucky. I was like, “Sharon, you’re winning lots of points because I just can’t.”
Dr. Phillips: Oh, same thing with my wife. Even to this day, she tended to have more late-night conversations with our kids than I do.
Chap: Well, let’s finish up talking about holiday time here. Just that there’s all sorts of different ways, and this obviously comes from Deuteronomy as well. Or holy days, holidays, holy days. We can use those as well. Again, and what I love about the way you’re talking, even as you confess like about evening time, the message should not be, “Now, here’s a checklist, and you’ve got to do all these all the time.” It’s more just sort of stimulation. “Hey, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?” And you’re really just having one conversation, one faith talk, one deposit a little bit at a time, making it joyful, making it attractive. But talk about holidays.
Dr. Phillips: Yeah, so for holidays, I encourage parents, you’ve got two major Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter. That’s where I would start. And we used resurrection eggs for Easter. It’s a great way to tell the story of the crucifixion and resurrection. And one of the things we did, too, I worked on a chronological reading plan through the crucifixion and resurrection, and as our kids got older, we worked on reading through that together. Same thing with Christmas. With Christmas, one of the things we did was a scavenger hunt. Every Christmas morning, we’d get up, and I had clues that would lead them to the different figurines of the Nativity story. And so once they figured out the clue, they would go find that figurine, come back, we’d read a scripture, then they’d have another clue. And so it was kind of a fun game. We still do it to this day. And so if you need some clues, parents, I’ve got years’ and years’ worth of Christmas clues for that. But it was a way to really emphasize what Christmas is all about. And again, this is something that we’ve done when we’ve had extended family in for the holidays, or for the resurrection eggs, we did one each night. And especially when our kids were little, I think we watched just about every Christian Christmas and Easter kids’ video that we could get our hands on, just because it created a lot of opportunities. Especially when our kids were young, we looked for either our church or other churches where we could go see something interactive. It just gave us opportunities to have additional conversations about that particular holiday season.
And one of the others that I would encourage parents to do is celebrate your kids’ birthdays in a spiritual way. I know you have, like, a donut, I can’t remember. Is it. . .
Chap: A Donut Date Journal.
Dr. Phillips: Yeah, The Donut Date Journal. I would often take my kids to their favorite breakfast place on their birthday, and oftentimes it was the donut shop, and we’d read Psalm 139, and I’d talk about how God created them. We’d reflect on the past year, and then help them dream about the upcoming year, and it was just a great way to celebrate who they were. And then over the course of time, we added in some different holidays that we would try to emphasize some different things, but definitely start with Christmas and Easter, and there’s a lot of good resources and tools out there to help you do that.
Chap: That’s great. Man, this has been really helpful. As we’re talking, man, oh, man, you’re so creative with the Christmas things, so we did not do that. But the other things we’re talking, I’m thinking, “Man, my administrative assistant who’s going to help do the transcription of this, she’s just going to put, ‘Yeah, Chap did that. Chap did that.’ Because we were just… It’s so funny how, certainly not as much as you did, but just a lot of things in common, very helpful ideas.
Well, let’s just end by talking about what encouragement would you share, if parents are like, “I haven’t done any of this.” Where can they begin? And then also just how can parents or churches contact you for resources?
Dr. Phillips: One of the things I would encourage parents to do is start with the scriptures. For me, God had to get a hold of my heart. And so I would say start with Deuteronomy 6. Look at some other key parenting passages. Okay, God, speak to my heart through your word, and Lord, may through your spirit and your word compel me, convict me, empower me to be intentional in discipling my children. And so another way I would say it is get fed, feed. Get fed, feed. Because one of the things you want to do as a parent is you want to have a consistent, faithful walk with God. Because if you don’t, and you try to push some things off on your kids, they’re going to see that as very hypocritical. And so one of the best things you can do is just nurture a consistent daily walk with God, and then out of the overflow of that, look for those opportunities to engage in some faith interactions with your children.
So whenever I do a parenting weekend at a church on a Friday night, I lay out key scriptures related to family discipleship, and then we walk through Deuteronomy 6, and so lay that theological foundation. Then on Saturday morning, we flesh out a practical plan. And so we talk through travel time, eating time, arise time, closing time, holiday time. And, and then I tell parents, “Don’t go home and do this.” And I just kind of let it sit there. And so I encourage parents, you’ve heard a lot of things here in this short amount of time. Don’t try to do all of this. Pick one area, one rhythm where you feel is really going to be the easiest for you as a parent to put into practice. And so I think for most parents, that’s probably either a closing time or a travel time or perhaps an eating time. Most families, I would say, don’t start with a rise time. That’s probably not a good place to start. One of the things I had to learn as well is, during the school year, it was a little bit easier to keep our rhythm. I got real frustrated during the holidays and during the summers because schedules were just kind of chaotic. And so I had to learn to flex and have some grace. My wife kind of coached me in that, to lighten up. And so know that there, there are some seasons where you’re going to be in a groove, things are going well, but just because you’re doing something this year or this semester, that may not work the following year or the following semester. So learn to adjust and adapt over the course of time, especially as your kids grow older.
Find some people in your church who are maybe a step or two ahead of you. “Hey, what are some things I need to be learning? What are some things that I need to be teaching my children? What do you wish you would have done differently or better, or if you had a do-over that you could go back and do?” And most parents will have a wealth of information that they’ll share with you. So learn. That’s the beauty of being connected to a local church. There’s a lot of different people who have been down this parenting journey that you can learn from.
Chap: That’s great. How can people connect with you if they want to learn more about your ministry?
Dr. Phillips: Thanks for asking that. I’m a full-time pastor, but our church graciously gives me some opportunities to train and equip parents in different churches. And so you can go to teachfaithat.com, and website in development, but my contact information will be on there. You can reach me by cell phone and email there, and would love to have some conversations with parents out there individually in any way I can help you and encourage you and equip you, or even for churches that are looking to schedule a time to equip parents. My experience has been in doing these in churches around the country is I get a lot of feedback that this was just so practical, so easy, like, we can put this into practice today. And so parents walk out with a practical written plan for discipling their children, and they begin to put it into practice one day at a time.
Chap: That’s great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. I think this is going to helpa lot of parents, so I appreciate it.
Dr. Phillips: Well, hey, thank you, Chap, and appreciate all you do in this family discipleship space.
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