On this episode of The Disciple-Making Parent Podcast, we introduce a brand new Q & A format. Together, we’ll look at crucial parenting topics including establishing parental authority in early years, handling temper tantrums, navigating disagreements between spouses on discipline methods, and responding to children’s constant “why” questions. We’ll consider practical wisdom on raising children who are both obedient and creative, emphasizing the importance of balancing firm boundaries with warm affection.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
I’m Chap Bettis, and you’re listening to The Disciple-Making Parent, where we seek to equip parents to pass the gospel to their children.
Are you the parent of a toddler or young child? How would you like to hear the wisdom of a pediatrician and three other older adults? Hi, my name is Chap Bettis and I’m the author of The Disciple-Making Parent. In today’s podcast we’re going to try something a little different. I’m going to do a podcast in a question-and-answer format. I’ve had people reach out and say that they have heard other podcasts do that format and found it helpful. So I was all prepared to take the questions from my last Parenting with Confidenceconference and just post them. The reason I was so excited about that was because in that conference, I was at my home church and had my wife joining me, as well as Tom and Mary Jo Hines. Tom is a local pediatrician and you’ve heard me interview him a number of times. You can find his wisdom on podcasts 1 & 2, 20, and 35. In fact, 20 is one of the most popular podcasts, in which he talks about a baby’s first year.
Well, I was very disappointed because the audio actually did not come out well. So rather than let that content go to waste, I’ve decided to read to you some of the transcript of that Q&A time. So this will be an experiment and you can let me know how it goes. If it goes well, feel free to e-mail more questions, and I will compile them in another Q&A format in the future.
Before I start I want to remind you that we have two resources that may be of interest to you. First, these questions will have been prompted from my Parenting with Confidence material. That is a video course, and we give away the videos absolutely free with the purchase of a workbook. The Parenting with Confidencematerial is really a subset of discipling your children. It’s what we think about when we think about parenting. It’s discipline, routines, character charts, rewards, etc. It’s being confident exercising our authority and our affection. You can check out the material at my website or order the workbook from Amazon. Just write us, and we’ll be happy to give you access to the videos for free with purchase.
And of course the second resource that we always highlight is that we give away the audiobook for The Disciple-Making Parent absolutely free. Just visit our website, sign up for our weekly newsletter, and we will give you the whole audiobook for The Disciple-Making Parent for free. We are on a mission to equip parents and grandparents to raise children who not only love the Lord and are disciples, but are disciple-makers taking the gospel to the world and standing as salt and light in our country. So head on over to thedisciplemakingparent.com for your free audiobook.
Q: The first question comes from a conference that I did in South Africa, and I was asked to expand on why I say that establishing authority as a parent in the early years is important.
A: There are different ways to think of sin. One way of sin is rebelling against God. Another way to think of it is going our own way. Isaiah talks about, we all like sheep have gone astray. Each one of us has turned to his own way. My physician is one of the kindest people I know. But he does not want Jesus to run his life, even though on a human scale he’s much kinder than me.
So what we’re doing is training our children to submit to us so they will submit to God later. When I’m establishing that authority, that right to rule in my home, what I’m saying out of love is, You’re supposed to submit to me. That’s what I’m trying to establish. We as parents are wiser and we know the world better than our kids do. In addition, we want to help them establish self-control. And the big fear, I think, in all this is that we’ll squash creativity. But the truth is, creativity actually flourishes in restrictions. I’ve got a son who’s an artist, I’ve got a daughter who works as a writer for a well-known magazine, and another daughter who’s a musician. Creativity flourishes in restrictions. But we want to win the battles early.
Here are some practical examples. In our house, you had to eat what was on your plate for dinner and if you didn’t like it, we were kind and sympathetic, but it would come out for lunch the next day. And why? The goal is to train your palate to like different foods. And so we go over to somebody else’s house, we didn’t want them serving us a nice meal and we’re having to say, “Oh, I’m sorry, he only eats peanut butter and jelly. Could you fix him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?” So part of that was out of self-control, and care for others.
We had another tradition. We had a fun thing where dessert could train lots of good habits at dinner. I like sweets. But they could not start until Mom sat down and she had the official bite. So there’s the transition time between dinner and dessert, and we’re sitting there with food in front of us that we really want. But out of consideration, Mom has not come back to the table. So then she’d come and sit down. And then she’d have “the official bite”- that’s what we called it. The point there is training our kids in self-control. It’s the idea of submitting to us, trusting us. We know best. You can see this in the idea of going to bed. Oh, it’s time for me to go to bed, Mom, said no kid ever. And that is why God gives parents to children. We are to train them up.
And the flip side of establishing that authority is the danger if we don’t. You’ll have kids who are wild and out of control as we see today, which Titus 1 says is a mark against a man, if his children are wild and disobedient. Augustine said sin causes us to curve in on ourselves. That’s why the day after a birthday party- what should it be like? Mom and Dad, thank you so much for all you did for me. I’m just going to go play and I’ll write my thank-you notes. No, it’s a hard day. Why? Because yesterday everything was the way it should be. People were here for me. Presents were brought to me. It was all about me. And that’s just the sin nature. And of course we want to celebrate our children and have them be spoiled. But part of our job as parents is not to give into that self-orientation; it’s to pull them out of it.
A generation ago, the culture was very parent-centered. Children were seen and not heard. Now we’ve swung to the other extreme, which is child-centered. And what we want to do is get to the middle. The way I’ve expressed it is that parenting is about authority and affection, and I think what the earlier generation had was the authority part, but there wasn’t compassion to train up. There was maybe just harsh discipline if something was wrong, or yelling. There wasn’t warmth. Zephaniah 3:17 says “The Father delights over us with singing.” Proverbs tells us, “The glory of children is their father.” So if there’s a relationship there, a child wants to please his dad. It of course is mixed in with sin.
The earlier generation had the authority part, but now this generation seems to be highlighting the affection part. As I say in a conference, you’re nailing the affection but you’re not nailing the authority. You can have high authority if you have high affection. Sharon and I were strict parents. There was chastisement. There were family rules children were expected to obey. But by God’s grace, there was also high warmth, and we were seeking to be understanding with them. For example, Psalm 103, speaking about us, says the Father knows that we’re weak. He understands that we’re sinful. And similarly, we need to understand they’re just little kids. They need to be trained towards obedience.
But that’s balanced with the idea that we’re not going to be permissive. In Romans 1 and 2 Timothy 3, one of the signs of the end times is children are disobedient to their parents, which to me is that parents have bought into the philosophy that children don’t need to obey. But actually, obedience is good for them and doesn’t squash their creativity. It leads to flourishing. I personally cannot play the piano because I was never trained and disciplined to practice the piano. A person who trained and disciplined has the freedom to play the piano. I just don’t have that freedom.
So again, the answer to this question is, establishing authority as a parent in the early years is important. One of the phrases I’ve thought about recently that has come from other people and I’ve tweaked just a little bit is that the parenting success sequence is really cop, communicator, coach, consultant. You could caretaker for the really early years. But in the younger years we’re seeking to get control. Certainly there’s lots of affection. Communicator is more 5-12 years, when we’re doing lots of explaining in life. And then 12-18 years is coach. Life is happening. We can call time-out, but what we’re doing is trying to train them in living life. And then, of course the later years, 18, 19, 20, and onward are more the consultant years. As you know, a consultant gives advice, but his advice can be rejected. So just think of that as what I call the parenting success sequence: cop, communicator, coach, consultant. And if you’ll do those in that order, it will be a blessing. If you mix that order up, you’re going to have trouble.
Q: One of the questions at our Parenting with Confidence conference had to do with temper tantrums. As I said, I have two conferences. One is The Disciple-Making Parent, so how your children can follow the Lord, and the other is Parenting with Confidence, which is more of Parenting 101. And so in one of those questions, we’re getting very much down into the specifics.
And so we had a question regarding temper tantrums. And just listen to Tom’s wise counsel as a pediatrician. Here’s what he had to say (I’m reading the transcript).
A: So with tantrums, again, it depends on the age. The throw yourself on the ground kind of thing doesn’t begin until at least fifteen to eighteen months to two years. Tantrums should be pretty rare from about five years on. And other mitigating factors, if the child is overly tired, overly hungry, or not feeling well, have to be taken into consideration. Children are surprisingly in control when they have a tantrum because I’ve seen kids immediately stop tantrums. And ignoring them in the moment. You can’t do anything with a child who’s acting completely out of control. So don’t try to, because it’s not the time to talk to them, it’s not the time to spank them, it’s not the time to do anything other than make sure they’re not going to hurt themselves and walk away and ignore them. After the fact, you can address it. Depending on the age of the child, how you want to handle it.
One of the techniques of childhood is the child who’s having a tantrum and instead of throwing themselves on the floor, they follow you around. And they’re whining and whining and whining because they’re not getting what they want. So in that case, just isolate them. Just say, “Look, I don’t like what’s happening.” Then they’re locked in their room and they’re playing or whatever. But they need to understand that that response gets them no attention whatsoever. So you’ve just got to completely ignore that. And then if they do cross the line- and crossing the line is hitting, kicking, biting, throwing things at the parent- that might deserve a little spontaneity at some point. But immediate isolation to their room or in the crib or something like that.
Chap: I really appreciated what Tom had to say. I started the section before he spoke by saying something like this: Sharon and I would always say that a temper tantrum needs an audience to succeed. So for little children, we would just pick up that child and put them in their room where there’s no audience, and leave them in their room to calm down. And then, assuming there’s no other mitigating factors, often we would chastise them when they were calmed down because they were totally rebelling against us.
One of the things that I’ve heard Tom say, although he didn’t say it in this response, but it’s really helpful, is that if you’ve got a child that whines, it is because it works. And so that comes back on us as parents. A whiny child whines because it works, and so we want to give no audience to a child who is whiny. And a child who has a full-blown tantrum should have some consequences.
Q: Well, let me read one of the questions that was asked, and then read you the rather long answer. It’s a common issue: How do you approach differences in parenting methods between you and your spouse, your wives for example? For instance, Scripture informs fathers not to spare the rod. However, what if your spouse is opposed to physical discipline? What are some other means to deliver firm discipline? That’s kind of a secondary question- really, what do you do if you’re just not in agreement on how to discipline?
I think this is a really common question. Let me read to you some of the different responses.
A: Tom was the first to respond to this question: I think you have to, in that moment, come to some agreement because you have to deal with the issue at hand. You have to come up with a method of discipline that’s acceptable. It may be time out, it may be isolation, it may be other consequences. And I would say you could deal with a majority of behavior with those tools. But then I do feel like you should have a deeper conversation with your spouse and find out why they feel that way. Where is that coming from? What are they afraid of? What do they think is going to happen? Did they have a bad experience growing up? And, what do we believe the Bible says about this? I do feel like that deserves a deeper conversation. But this is that ongoing conversation you have to have about everything with your children. And there may be areas of disagreement, but you’ve got to come to some agreement for the sake of your child, because you still have to address those things that are coming out.
Sharon had this to say: So ditto to all of that, Tom. I would also add pray, because I think this is really a marriage issue. Wat do you do when you’re not on the same page with your spouse about anything? And I think that God is in the business of changing hearts. And so when we take these things to him in prayer, I think the answer will be revealed. And in the meantime, probably erring on the side of caution, and maybe not chastising in the meantime, but really praying and asking God to intervene and bring you onto the same page and to have a unified stance on this, because that’s what God wants. He wants unity. And so, that would be my two cents.
Mary Jo, Tom’s wife, had this to say: I think Chap gave a great outline of what chastisement is. [All of this material is, by the way, in Parenting with Confidence. I save it for the last chapter, but it’s the one that often brings about the most questions.] So if you could go through those steps, find out where along the line that maybe you have a disagreement, that you’re not clear about, or not sure about, or maybe don’t know about. And like Sharon said, pray about that. You have to come to an agreement, because it’s for the sake of your children. And God does talk about chastisement. So, I would say that’s something you guys have to weigh out and decide how you want to honor the Lord with that decision.
And then here in the moment was my response: I think I’d probably be a little stronger. Sharon’s saying it’s a marriage issue. And I deliberately, because of time, did not go into Proverbs, but I stayed in the New Testament. But often we have an emotional theology about chastisement. And not to paint with a broad brush, but 1 Peter 3 is very clear that reasons women struggle with submitting is fear. So in this question I’m assuming that it might be the mom who is more concerned.
So yes, I want to pray, I want to talk about it, but there are also resources in the church, there are resources of older parents, there are books out there. But the point is, are you willing to pray, Lord, how am I wrong in my thinking? Am I wrong? Is he wrong? or am I wrong? Is it really because I was mistreated as a child? Is it because I’m concerned about my husband’s temper? Or is it biblical? Part of it is having humility to go before the Lord and asking his Holy Spirit to speak to you and guide you. But I would argue that properly applied, Scripture actually argues for chastisement. And I don’t want to withhold something good that God commands for my child because of my fears. And there are plenty of resources out there to alleviate my fears.
And then Tom ended, and again, I think this is solid gold: Let’s take it down a couple notches from chastisement. There are so many parents that can’t even handle their child crying. If you put them in their room and they’re crying, they can’t handle it. You put them in their bed and they don’t want to go to bed and they’re crying. So, it’s really the same issue. What is it that is in you that you can’t let your child cry because they’re unhappy? It’s the same issue with chastisement, it’s just multiplied by a couple levels up.
One of the things I say at my office all the time is the hardest thing about parenting is you have to say no to yourself. Because most of the time we can’t follow through with things just because we can’t deny ourself in the situation that we’re dealing with. We don’t want to hear them cry. We don’t want to see them sad. We don’t want them to miss out on the soccer game. We don’t want them to go to bed without dinner. We don’t want them to go to bed early. The problem is really, in our own hearts, that we cannot say no to our child in any way, shape, or form. And that can play out in a multitude of ways.
Chap: And I really appreciated that. I’ve been thinking recently, and this came across in the podcast with Melissa Kruger, which I would highly recommend, where she says, authoritarian parents fear losing control; permissive parents fear their children not liking them. And I just think that both insights by Tom and Melissa Kruger are profound. We have to wrestle with our own hearts and what is going on in me.
Well, we’re getting towards the end of our time. Let’s do just one more here for our podcast. And this one’s pretty simple:
Q: My kids are always just asking why when we tell them to do or not to do something. [We’re thinking about older children here].
A: Here was Mary Jo’s response: My response is this: “I’ll tell you why after you do what I told you to do. Then we can talk about the why.” So do what I told you and I’ll answer your why. Because 99% of the time, why is a stall. They didn’t say no, they said why and they caught you because you weren’t paying attention. I’m kind of kidding a little bit, but why could be no with a different word. So I will answer your why after you do what I asked you to do. And then we can talk about it. I guarantee they will not come back to have the explanation.
Tom, her husband, chimed in and said: So why is it a stalling technique? They’re really happy to engage you in conversation. The number one mistake I think parents make is we feel obligated to explain why. And you’re under no obligation to explain why, because you’re the mom and dad. But, as they get older, it works quite well. “Well, go do what Dad said, and then come back and talk to me about it, and I’ll explain everything about it.” Because then that’s going to get to the heart of the issue. And like she said, they would never come back. Just because that was not the issue. The issue was stalling, and getting us into the conversation, and getting us distracted. It was never the issue. They really didn’t really want to come back. They knew why.
At that point, I added in: And that gets into a similar question I often get. In my Parenting with Confidence material, I’m teaching that they need to respond with, Please may I appeal? Is that always for new information? The point is that if I’ve given my child a command that they need to obey, but for different reasons one response could be, Please may I appeal? And my response is, What do you need to tell me? It needs to be new information.
But often, children may use that technique not so much to give new information, but to stall. Not to stereotype, but it’s often the girls who pick up that if I ask Please may I appeal?, I don’t have to do what Mom and Dad said. And so you can say, “No, you may not appeal. Please do what I said right now.”
And Tom added in: So when Chap talked about the appeal process, the purpose of the appeal process is strictly to give information that you may not know about. And so, it’s not just appeal to have a discussion, let’s talk more about this. No, it’s for giving new information that may have a direct impact on your decision in the moment.
Chap: And the example I always use is when a child is almost done playing, or there are different times when a child might tell us things that we had not taken into consideration.
Well, I think that’s good for this podcast. I’d love to hear from you. Let me know how you think it worked. We’ve got more questions from different conferences. These were focused on my Parenting with Confidencematerial, but I’ve got a lot more questions that I’ve collected over the years and if you liked this format, I may do it again. So let me know; I’d love to hear from you! Just go to our website and find the contact page, or simply hit reply to our weekly newsletter.
You do know about our weekly newsletter, right? Every week, usually Saturday mornings, I send out an email to encourage and help us think about family discipleship. So head on over to our website and sign up for that weekly newsletter. Thanks for listening.
