On this episode of The Disciple-Making Parent podcast, we explore the critical balance between children’s ministry and parental discipleship in the church. We speak with Jared Kennedy, author of “Keeping Your Children’s Ministry on Mission: Practical Strategies for Discipling the Next Generation,” who shares his journey from aspiring missionary to children’s ministry leader.
We discuss how children’s ministry is not merely childcare but a vital part of the church’s mission to pass faith to the next generation. Kennedy challenges the notion that parents are the sole disciplers of children, arguing that Scripture places this responsibility on the entire covenant community.
The conversation highlights how even teaching toddlers is missional work, as they develop crucial vocabulary that forms the building blocks of faith. We also examine how children’s ministry serves as a “subversive” training ground for parents to learn discipleship skills they can implement at home.
Join us as we navigate the complementary roles of church and family in raising the next generation of believers – not just as disciples, but as disciple makers with hearts for the nations.
Resources From This Podcast
Keeping Your Children’s Ministry on Mission, by Jared Kennedy
Jared Kennedy at TGC
The Beginner’s Gospel Story Bible, by Jared Kennedy
The Story of Martin Luther, by Jared Kennedy
Gospel-Centered Family
The Fallen Condition Focus, by Bryan Chapell
Read-Aloud Bible Stories, by Ella Lindvall
Managing Your Households Well, by Chap Bettis
Topics Covered in This Week’s Podcast
04:24 Introducing Jared Kennedy
08:03 Gospel Centered Family
09:14 Why write Keeping Your Children’s Ministry on Mission?
11:39 The value of children’s ministry
20:10 Mandatory or volunteer service?
25:33 Essential strategies for children’s ministry
30:35 Different ways to teach the Bible
41:03 The Beginner’s Gospel Story Bible
Episode Transcript
Chap Bettis: I am Chap Bettis and you’re listening to The Disciple-Making Parent, where we seek to equip parents and churches to pass the gospel to their children. Does your church have a children’s Sunday school? How important is that to you, and how important is it to your church leaders? Maybe even more importantly, we should be asking how can we go about strengthening it? Well, for the answer to this question, you’re going to want to listen to today’s podcast.
Hi, my name is Chap Bettis and I’m the author of The Disciple-Making Parent. You know, for some parents, a children’s ministry is how they choose the church. It’s their sole family discipleship strategy. They’re thinking, I bring them to church so that the specialists can do things that I don’t know how to do.
Well, I’m thankful that the emphasis on family discipleship has sought to push against this unbiblical idea and restore and equip parents and grandparents to disciple their kids. That’s at the heart of The Disciple-Making Parent’s ministry. But in that restoration, the value and the role of the church can be overlooked. Having recovered one truth, we can ignore the counterbalancing truth. What’s the point? In the past, we may have overemphasized children’s ministry, but could it be possible now to underemphasize it as a result? It exists in the shadows, understaffed and not well trained. It can be neglected by the leadership team.
Well, in today’s podcast I talk with Jared Kennedy, author of the book, Keeping Your Children’s Ministry on Mission: Practical Strategies for Discipling the Next Generation. This book really serves as a handbook of sorts for those who want to think deeply and theologically about ministry to children. Jared is so helpful articulating the biblical understanding that he has, and he also includes wisdom as to how he recruits others. And I tell you, you’re not going to want to miss his differentiation between the different types of Sunday school lessons. Whether Sunday school teacher or pastor, your Bible teaching will be changed. I found our conversation enlightening and challenging, and I think you will too, even if you’re listening as a parent or grandparent.
Jared Kennedy serves as managing editor for books and curriculum for the Gospel Coalition. Before coming to TGC. He served for a decade and a half as a children’s minister and family pastor in local churches. Jared is the author of books like The Beginner’s Gospel Story Bible and The Story of Martin Luther. He and his wife Megan live with their three daughters in Louisville, Kentucky, where they’re part of Sojourn Church Midtown.
Well, before we start though, I want to remind you of two resources that may be of interest to you. First, our newest book is entitled Managing Your Households Well: How Family Leadership Trains You for Church Leadership. In It, I do a deep dive into thinking about current church leaders and future church leaders, how we’re called to develop and display relational wisdom in our homes. It’s been endorsed by Tim Challies, Barnabas Piper, and Alexander Strauch, just to name a few, and you can pick it up wherever Christian books are sold. And don’t forget to check out the online bonuses.
And of course, the second resource that we always highlight is that we give away the audiobook for The Disciple-Making Parent absolutely free. Just visit our website, thedisciplemakingparent.com, and sign up for our weekly newsletter and we’ll give you the whole audiobook of The Disciple-Making Parent for free. We’re on a mission to equip parents and grandparents to raise children who not only love the Lord, who are not only disciples, but disciple-makers taking the gospel to the world, standing as salt and light in our own country. So head on over to thedisciplemakingparent.com for your free audiobook. But for now, let’s listen in as Jared Kennedy and I talk about children’s ministry and its importance in your church.
Chap: Well, it’s a joy to have Jared Kennedy on The Disciple-Making Parent podcast.
Jared Kennedy: It’s such a joy to be here with you, Chap.
Chap: Well, we’re going to talk about your book on children’s ministry entitled Keeping Your Children’s Ministry on Mission: Practical Strategies for Discipling the Next Generation. But I wonder before we start, tell us a little more about yourself. Maybe how you came to faith and ministry. Just give us kind of the Jared Kennedy story overview.
Jared: Yeah. I grew up in southern Georgia in a Christian home. My mom and dad shared the gospel with me during family demotions. Remember, my parents were both schoolteachers and my dad would work at a local department store during the summer and it was one evening while he was out working during the summer. My mom and I read the story from Matthew 19 about the little children coming to Jesus and I knelt beside my bed and prayed and accepted Christ then. So that was the beginning of my journey of faith. I’m really thankful for a mom and dad- We actually just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary, but I’m very thankful for mom and dad who were intentional about teaching the gospel to me.
I felt a call to ministry during high school and wasn’t exactly sure exactly what kind of ministry the Lord was leading me to. I went to Bible college at Toccoa Falls College, which is a Christian Missionary Alliance college in northeast Georgia. That’s where I met Megan and she was there studying Biblical languages, getting ready to be a Bible translator with Wycliffe overseas. And we began dating and I proposed and we got married and that was our path.
I was at Southern Seminary. We were planning to transfer down to Dallas to the Wycliffe school and then head overseas when the Lord. . . You know, he often gives us detours in our plans. And so our middle daughter, Lucy, was born and at age two was diagnosed just before she turned three with severe autism. And at that time, the mission boards we were talking to would’ve required us to have her in a boarding school overseas. And our conscience wasn’t clear doing that. And so we shifted gears and began serving in our local church. And one of my pastors had heard that I’d volunteered to organize a VBS at a previous church while I was in seminary and said, “I think you can run this children’s ministry for us.” So he hired me on part-time and 15 years later I was still in the pastoral ministry role as a family pastor at a local church.
And then in 2020 the Lord kind of transitioned. There were changes in our local church where we’re a multi-site church and the multi-site is now six autonomous congregations. And the Lord open some doors for me to move out of pastoral ministry into non-profit ministry, serving other churches. And eventually I came to The Gospel Coalition about three years ago, where I serve now, as you said, as managing editor of books and curriculum.
Megan and I have three daughters. Our oldest is Rachel, who’s 20, who is a sophomore at University of Kentucky. And then our middle daughter, Lucy, who I talked about, and our youngest, Elizabeth, is about to start her sophomore year in high school. So that’s our family.
Chap: Oh, that’s great. Thanks for sharing that. It helps us get to know a little more about you. You’re also a writer. Tell us a little bit about Gospel-Centered Family.
Jared: Yeah, so Gospel Centered Family is a ministry that some friends and I started several years ago while I was still in pastoral ministry. Really just a blog platform. At that time, everyone was blogging. Now everyone had a substack. It’s a new day. But where we would write about family ministry things and a place for us to have landing pages for our books. And so that ministry is still there. My friend Trey Kullman, who was one of our family pastors at Sojourn when I served there, writes a weekly newsletter through the ministry. And my friend Kevin Hippolyte, who is actually our youth pastor at Midtown where I interned, does all of our social media kind of things and helps just to basically gather resources that we can share out and equip the church. And so there’s opportunities for coaching there. There’s opportunities for if you wanted to invite one of us as a speaker. Those kinds of things are there at gospelcenteredfamily.com.
Chap: Well, let’s talk about your book. And I want to start with the question that I ask every author. So if you’re going to put this much time and effort into something, you obviously see a need and think this would help. What caused you to write the book? Who is it aimed for? What are you trying to accomplish with it?
Jared: I told you a little bit of my personal story, which was thinking about training for missions first and then children’s ministry I kind of came at by happenstance. And I wrestled with that often in the years that I served as a family pastor and a children’s minister. And the Lord just impressed on me again and again that this is a mission. That reaching not just across geography to different countries, but from generation to generation is part of our gospel mission. And so the book is not just the fun rocket on the cover, you know, that mission 3, 2, 1.
The idea is that I wrote this book in order to convey this sense that what churches do, what parents do as their passing on faith to the next generation is a part of the missio Dei. It’s a part of God’s mission to bring the gospel to the world. And a really important and essential part of that mission is the work we do to teach the faith to our kids.
Chap: That’s helpful. In some ways, that’s the way The Disciple-Making Parent was born. I was church planting in New England and noticing how people would come into my church in their fifties saying, “We have four kids. None of our kids are walking with the Lord.” And just thinking, Huh, okay, if we’re going to reach New England, part of it is by evangelism, but part of it is also keeping our kids.
But then also, I’m sure you would agree with this, especially studying to be a missionary. Ultimately what we want is not just disciples but disciple-makers. We want our children to have a heart for the nations as well.
But it does have a nice little rocket in crayon on the front.
Jared: It does, it does. Crossway did a great job on the cover. It’s great.
Chap: Well, often for a church planting pastor or lead pastor, I think it’s easy for the children’s ministry to be an afterthought. Basically, we’ve got to do something with the kids so that the adults will come in. I would bet you would disagree with that. So if you had a pastor who may or may not have that thinking in his head, consciously or unconsciously, in front of you right now, what would you say to him?
Jared: I think also in new church plants, the other thing that can happen is that oftentimes you’ll start the children’s ministry and get it going. And it may be the lead pastor’s wife who’s leading that for a season or one of the core team members. But typically you’re just grabbing someone who’s had some experience working with kids but may not have as much experience thinking about what the scriptures say theologically about discipling children.
And so I think I would just say first of all, and that this sounds a little bit cliche, but it’s not our responsibility as the church, really, is to pass on the faith. So what we’re doing is not childcare, it is discipleship. And that discipleship responsibility- I think we often hear too in the family ministry circles, parents are the primary disciple-makers of their kids. And there’s a sense in which that’s true. And there’s a sense in which I disagree with it.
So the sense in which it’s true is that Deuteronomy 6 clearly commands moms and dads to teach their kids along the road, when you go to bed at night, when you sit down at the table. In all of those moments throughout your life to pass on the faith to your kids.
But that command wasn’t just given to moms and dads. It was given to the covenant community as a whole. And it was given corporately to the covenant community because there was a responsibility there for the community to hold one another accountable for this. And also, if you know a mom or dad is out of a picture, if there’s a kid that’s adopted in, there’s a responsibility of the whole covenant community to care for those kids who may not have believing parents or who may not have faithful parents who are discipling that child. So that’s a clear missional responsibility of the church as well.
When Asaph wrote Psalm 78, Psalm 78 is really a commentary in song on Deuteronomy 6 and some of the following chapters. Especially the part there in verses 3-8 is really a commentary on what’s happening in Deuteronomy 6. And it says, “He established a testimony in Jacob and appointed the law in Israel that the fathers would teach their children.” And so sometimes we hone in on the fathers teaching the children part. That establishing the testimony in Jacob, appointing the law in Israel, this is that corporate responsibility of the church community, that the older generation would pass on to this younger generation, this space, so that they in turn would tell the generation coming after them.
So it’s an important responsibility that each generation has to pass on the faith and specifically I think children’s ministry is probably one of the most concentrated opportunities we have to do that kind of discipleship and evangelism work with kids in that age group. We can teach their parents and tell their parents, teach the kids. We can have kids in the Sunday service. But often you’re applying to gospel really broadly. But in terms of an intentional time of discipleship with those kids, there’s a great opportunity we have week in and week out in the children’s ministry could do that.
I actually enjoy recruiting. I still recruit. I’m recruiting authors now to write books instead of children’s ministry volunteers. But I love recruiting the teachers for the two- and three-year-olds class. Because if there’s any class that you would think, Oh, it’s just childcare, it’s the toddlers. But, you know, one of the things I would say is that when a toddler, a, a 2-year-old comes to Sunday school for the first time, they typically have 2-300 words in their vocabulary. But by the time they graduate from that three-year-old class up to the four-year-old class, they have 3- 5,000 words in their vocabulary, and they’re learning these basic concepts of language that get filled, filled out with Mimi as they grow. And so during that year to two years that you’re teaching that toddler in Sunday school class, they may be learning words like sin or Bible or prayer or Jesus. And if they’re not from a Christian home, they may be hearing those words from the very first song and they’re learning these concepts that are really basic building blocks of the faith. And I just think that’s an incredible opportunity. Two- and three-year-olds’ teachers don’t see a lot of conversions and baptisms like youth pastors do. And so it can be a lot more exciting to lead in the youth group, but to see that progress of really understanding biblical concepts in a way that builds that kind of foundation. . .
And I’ll just never forget some new believers who would come and serve with our two- and three-year-olds after joining the church and just being at church probably a year or two learning some basic theological concepts themselves, and being so excited about teaching those to the kids. And as kids learn to recite catechism questions back or other things, oftentimes our church members are learning that too.
And so I think one thing I would say to pastors in that children’s ministry is also a subversive way, when you do it well and when you make it discipleship, it’s a subversive way to train your moms and dads to do discipleship at home because you’re putting them in a context where they’re learning how to teach these things in a way that’s effective. That they can then go home and do the same thing.
Chap: There’s like three different things you just said, which I just want to highlight so much.
In your book, you talk about Luther saying both. And in my seminars I’ve asked which is more important, the left wing or the right wing of the airplane. And so I loved your defense of that. And even historically finding out, for example, even Calvin felt a responsibility besides parents. So that’s the first think.
Second thing. Literally this morning I just heard a story of someone who came to our church this past week, and the reason they came was because either their 5-year-old or fifth grader, I think it’s 5-year-old, started school with another Christian and came home and said, “Why don’t we love Jesus? Why don’t we go to church?” And they started. They’ve come once. So we’ll see what happens of that. But they’re here, and obviously there’s a place for that child.
But I want to double down on that last point you were making, because I was thinking, Should I even ask him about parents teaching? Because in one sense, these are your kids. But what you’re saying is, depending on how much effort you’re putting in, parents are learning the lesson. The teacher always learns more. So the fact that you’ve got a deadline, I’m supposed to be teaching Sunday, I’m supposed to know this material.
Jared: That’s right.
Chap: And then you have to simplify it. So 2-, 3-, 4-, 5-year-olds. And then this whole idea that others are learning all sorts of things in the process. Learning theology, learning how to teach. So this is an off question, but did you require or strongly recruit parents? to say, “Hey, you should be in there.”? Did you do that in your experience or how’d you handle that?
Jared: We did not require parents to serve. Yeah, I, I think we made a lot of these decisions about policies corporately as a group of elders, and so we definitely had elders who advocated for every parent serving. That wasn’t something we did. I think it’s a matter of prudence, right? I think there’s some parents who are in a season of life where they need to be in the service and they don’t need to be teaching. And there are other parents that are in a season of life and are gifted in a unique way to pass on the faith to kids. And that’s exactly who I want in the room.
We were also, still are, in the same church where I spent most of my ministry. And we’re an inner-city church, near a university campus, and so we always have tons of college students. And I often think those college students need some experienced parents to kind of guide them and show them how to lead a classroom with kids. I often had plenty of college student volunteering and I was recruiting those parents who even sometimes who maybe didn’t want to be in children’s ministry but had a heart for the college student who could be there and model for them what it looked like to love kids, even once a month on a rotation. Because that was just a great influence on their faith.
As a first principle, I really believe in gifted service more than I believe in required service. I believe that Christ descended to earth. He ascended to heaven and he’s given gifts to people, and of those spiritual gifts, teaching is one of those gifts. And so I’m looking for folks who are gifted teachers who want to use those gifts in a way that serves that next generation. And so I’m looking for gifted service first. At the same time, I do think there are chores and responsibilities we have to do as a church community. And sometimes I think having service requirements is a part of that. But I think it takes a lot of wisdom and discernment and elder conversation and agreement to come to the way you work that out of your particular context.
Chap: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I just think what struck me, I hadn’t really thought of it this way, but recruiting people (and you will get nothing out of it) versus recruiting people and saying Yeah, we’re all pitching in together. Nobody wants to do this, this is a chore. Thank you for taking your turn with this chore. Versus There are so many things you will benefit from as you teach, as you get in there, like mentoring college students, interactions, this is an opportunity, you’re going to get tons out of this. . .
Jared: I think there are three things you recruit to. And number one, you always recruit to vision. And so you recruit the fact that this is a discipleship ministry, not a childcare ministry. That’s kind of the big vision.
But then I was always praying when I recruited. I never needed just a children’s ministry worker. I needed a greeter, or I needed a two-year-olds’ teacher, or I needed a preschool teacher. And so I would always pray, “Lord, give me a vision for that particular role.” You heard my vision for the two- and three-year-olds’ class a minute ago.
I’m praying for a particular vision there and I’m recruiting to that vision. You’re always calling someone to that, and maybe it’s a vision for that individual person’s gifts and their passions and how they fit within the ministry. Or maybe it’s a vision for this role that you need in the ministry, but number one, you recruit the vision.
Second, I think you recruit your relationship. And so those mentoring relationships we talked about. Actually, in the 13 years I was at Midtown as children’s minister and family pastor, the very best nursery team I had was for our five o’clock Sunday night service, which was a hard time to get people to come back and serve. They’d go into church in the morning and we were doing the same service in the evenings for a season. But this one young couple, I basically had their entire small group serve together in the nursery in the evening, and they just loved each other. They loved doing things together. And so they all came back together and served in the evening. If one of them had to be out, I never knew that I needed to find a substitute because they just did that for each other. And so it was, it was a really beautiful team relationship. So recruit to vision, recruit to relationship.
And then I think lastly, I just don’t think we should be afraid to recruit to need, and so life of faith or the life of desperation. And sometimes I think as pastors, we have to be honest about that too.
Chap: That’s helpful. Well, do you want talk about, or have we already started touching on your philosophy and strategy? Is there more you would add? I’m thinking of a young couple I’ve just gotten to know who are in a church plant by close by here, probably haven’t had a lot of training and then you’ve got more established churches. What do you want to talk about? Philosophy and strategy, things you would say I hope you understand this, whether it’s small or big.
Jared: Yeah. I think there are four big things that I think about in terms of strategy for children’s ministry, and they all come out of Matthew 18. Matthew 18 begins with Jesus walking along the road and one of his disciples coming to him and saying, Who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus takes a child and puts that child among them and says, Unless you change and become like children, you cannot be great in the kingdom of heaven. And so the first thing is, I think to do children’s ministry well, honestly, to do any ministry well, you have to have the posture of a child. You’ve got to approach it with a great humility and rhythm. With prayer. And so I think it’s important that children’s ministry teams pray together, that you pray for your kids throughout the week, and that you’re constantly just praying and asking for the Lord’s help in your ministry.
The second thing is he says, and when you welcome one of these children, you welcome me. And so the second big piece is the presence of children there and in the practice of hospitality and in welcoming them in, Jesus and the New Testament just expects kids to be at church.
And so Paul writes letters to Colossians and Ephesians and he’s addressing children that are there. And so in the book, I think I titled the chapter, Meeting Jesus at the Front Door. Because really, in the presence of believing children, we meet the presence of Christ at church. And so being intentional about things like learning kids’ names, learning their interests- I’m a big Alabama football fan and we have this one kid in our ministry who for seven or eight years is a big Ohio State fan. One year, Ohio State v Alabama, and I’ve never heard the end of it on Sunday morning. But you know, you know the child’s interest and build that relationship. That’s important: that kids are there, that you know them well, that you’re intentional in celebrating their presence as they get older, that you’re giving them an opportunity to participate in the lesson, even participate in serving at church is a big part of the principles.
So the posture of a child, and the presence of children. The third is the protection of children. And we don’t have to run through all the safety and security, but this is actually the passage where right after calling the child and putting it before his disciples, Jesus says, If anyone causes one of these little ones to stumble, it’d be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and be cast into the depths of the sea.
Jesus puts a priority on protecting kids from abuse and neglect. And so child protection is a really important key principle in any children’s ministry. And I think if there is one thing that often can be neglected, especially in new churches and church plants, that’s that one thing. We’ve got to get this ministry started, but we haven’t thought intentionally about what it looks like to keep kids safe.
And then finally, just the precious value of kids, and that that goes to what I was talking about earlier, that ministry of children is a mission. And so this section that closes Matthew 18, verses 10-14 with the parable of the lawsuit, and Jesus says, See that you don’t despise one of these little ones, where I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my father in heaven. What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep and one of them wonders away, won’t he leave the 99 on the hills and go look for that one that wandered off? And if he finds it rejoice? And in the same way your father in heaven’s not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
And I think we think about going after the lost, but I think recognizing that this really is a missional, missionary responsibility that we have to the next generation, which means we’ve got to be really intentional about teaching them the gospel too.
Chap: Well, that leads right into how I loved that you talk about doing ministry with excellence. Talk a little bit about the different types of Bible teaching. I don’t have them in front of me right now, but I know there’s God-centered, gospel-centered where there’s maybe example-centered. Talk about those and then talk a little bit about how you train. If you had two or three minutes with a teacher, how you would try and train them, if you don’t mind.
Jared: Yeah. I do think there are three ways to tell a Bible story, and I think we see all three of these ways modeled for us in the scriptures.
Chap: Wait, can I stop you there? I think that is really good. I think that as someone who over time has seen different emphases, I appreciate that. Because I have seen all three as well and appreciate them. I’m surprised- I didn’t know you were going say that, but all three are valuable and used in the Bible. However, let’s end up on the last one.
Jared: However, I think the last one’s the most important.
An example of lesson is one that really emphasizes the Bible character and their moral virtue you and how kids can be like that character. Be strong and courageous like Joshua, fight your giants like David; that kind of thing would be an example lesson. 1 Corinthians 10:11- These things were written as an example for you so that you might be warned. You know, I think we see very, very explicitly in the scriptures that sometimes they are used as in examples and as warnings, as moral examples. And so we have a responsibility to teach God’s law to the next generation. I think part of that is teaching what a life shaped by God’s law looks like. I think we do see that in the moral examples in scripture. Now that’s not saving, but, but it’s there.
Secondly, there’s a God-centered lesson. And I think most TGC people, when they begin teaching Sunday school, if they really care about theology and they read articles at TGC, this is the kind of lesson they’re going to teach. And that is, they’re going to say, Well, the main character in the Bible is not David. It’s not Joseph, it’s not Joshua. The main character is God. And so, I want to go to the scriptures, and I want to teach about who God is and what God has done. And you think about that in the story of David. I think explicitly David does not come before the giant talking about himself and his sling and the stones he picked up on the riverbank. He says, I defy you in the name of the God of the armies of Israel. And he talks about how the Lord who delivered him from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will deliver him from the hand of this Philistine. And so, he’s talking about the Lord. And I don’t think we see this in a lot of Reformed curriculum that [unclear] the Bible story to a principle about who God is, even a theological doctrine about who God is.
What I want to challenge folks from my tribe is to say that doesn’t always actually lead you to a place of application. It doesn’t actually lead you to a place where that that big truth is applied in your life. And so one of my mentors, Sovereign Grace pastor by the name of Marty Machowski, we were talking one day. And he said the best way that he feels helps Sunday school teachers teach gospel-centered lessons is to help the kids in the class not just be like David or Joshua, not just see the big theological principle, but actually find the person in the text who is most needy and the most desperate. And help the kids identify themselves with that person. And so, to address your second question, one of the first questions I train teachers to ask is, “Who in this Bible passage needs the good news? Who here is needy and desperate for good news?”
In that story of David and Goliath, it’s the people of Israel, who have a strong enemy and a really bad king, and they have a king who should be representing them out on the battlefield, and yet their enemy is taunting them every day and taunting their God, and they’re cowering and shaking in their boots. And what the Lord provides for them in that moment. And so that once you identify that. . .
And so I think in the story in Numbers 10 of the bronze serpent, and in that context, who is needy? It’s the Israelites again. And now they’re grumbling and complaining about their food and how it’s hot in the desert, and all of those things. And I would ask kids, Have you ever grumbled and complained? And kids have, they’ve grumbled and complained. There’s this one line in Numbers 10 where they say, We have no food. We have no water, and we hate this miserable food. Which contradicts what they just said, that they have no food. They have food, they just don’t like what they have. They’re discontent with what they have.
I think helping kids to identify that first, then asking the question second, What does God do for the person in that need? And in the David and Goliath story, God sends a boy from Bethlehem, one who has already been anointed king, who goes on Adam to the battlefield to represent the people, fight for them and save them from their enemy. It’s in that context where you see what David does for the people who have need, that you begin to see what God has done through David and how that points to the future boy from Bethlehem who steps out into the battle and at the cross defeats the grave enemy. It leads you straight to the gospel.
So first: Who needs God in this story? Second, What does God do for them to meet that need? Third is a question I learned from Jack Klumpenhower, who’s a Bible teacher out in Colorado. How does God do the same thing for us, only better, in Jesus? And then finally, How does believing that good news change the way I live?
So believing that truth about who that is and what he does should actually change the way kids live. And so seeing that God saves those Israelites who were judged by these serpents coming in, that God judged their grumbling, that God sent salvation for them in the bronze serpent so when they looked up at the serpent, seeing that Jesus’s cross is just like that, should actually have an effect on our grumbling. It should actually have an effect on the way we live. Knowing that God had given us the very best gift we can receive in Jesus should cultivate in us a heart of gratitude no matter what our circumstances are. Seeing that we deserve death and punishment, but have received great grace should actually affect us in a way that changes the way we live, too.
So I, my hope in talking to teachers about that is that you’re not stuck just in that theological principle that kind of hangs up in the air and doesn’t have a connection down to the real world, but that it would actually affect the way kids and teachers and their parents live from day to day.
Chap: I’m thinking of some preachers who might need that too because I think what you’re doing is you’re connecting this recovery of Jesus being the true and better David. Okay, I get that. But where am I? How does that affect me? So I’m willing to say, No, I shouldn’t be like David, if we move past the example. But what you’ve just done is say, No, actually you’re like the Israelite, you’re Israelites, you’re desperate. You and I are desperate. And so the true and better David has come, and we need the true and better David.
Jared: Who am I looking to? Am I looking to bad kings? Am I shaking in my boots because I’m looking at those who are enemies of the faith? Or am I actually looking to the king that’s conquered? I think that does change the way you live as a child. Are you looking to someone who is a bad leader, are you looking to that that bully in the class, are you looking to that friend that is just going to get you in trouble? Are you really looking to Jesus and saying, If I follow him, I can have confidence because he’s defeated? I think that’s where I really do want to connect that. What Jack and Marty have done with those questions that I learned from them, they really followed some great preachers.
I, I think of Bryan Chapell’s Fallen Condition Focus, or, uh, Sidney Greidanus does a very similar thing where he says, Where is what the sin problem that God meets in this text and, and what does that look like? But then I do think it’s important for us to apply as well. I do think we can run away from the example lessons so much that we get stuck in kind of theological world and don’t actually teach kids how to live their faith.
So that’s my prayer and hope is that’s one way the Lord uses the book and the training that we’ve done with our Sunday school teachers to help kids learn how to live out their faith in that way.
Chap: Well, that seems like a great drop the mic moment to finish up our time together. Before we end, talk a little bit about The Beginner’s Gospel Story Bible. I’ve heard some good things about that, and I know there’s some different kids’ Bibles out there. So tell us a little bit about that and then I’ll let you go.
Jared: Well, I wrote it for two- and three-year-olds because it’s my favorite class to teach. When I was writing, when I first started in children’s ministry, there weren’t a lot of gospel-centered resources. And I think my second or third year was when Sally Lloyd-Jones published The Jesus Storybook Bible. And then since that time, there’s been an explosion. But when I wrote that there were beginning to be a lot of resources for elementary aged kids, preschool and up, but not so many for babies and toddlers.
There’s an old Moody Press, I think it’s 1976 or something like that, set of books called Read-Aloud Bible Stories by Ella Lindvall. And we just wore those things out with my kids. And I was convinced I needed something like that, that puts Jesus at the center that we can give away at child dedications at our church and that’ll bless that generation of kids.
And so I’m really thankful for it. Marty is also an editor at New Growth Press in addition to being a pastor, and he knew me already and he was like, Okay, write it and let’s see what it looks like. And so I’m really thankful for that. And there are a number of board books that have kind of spun all from it.
This year I just turned in a manuscript for a curriculum for two- and three-year-olds. That’ll be based on Beginner’s Gospel Story Bible. So I’m excited about seeing it used not just in homes, but also in Sunday schools in the future.
Chap: Well, you are a gift to the church and your thinking is very theologically rich, but also practical. So your heart comes through. Thank you Jared, for taking the time, and I’m sure this is going to equip both pastors and ministry leaders and parents to help teach their kids. So thanks for taking the time.
Jared: Thanks, Chap.
Thanks for listening to The Disciple-Making Parent podcast. We love offering resources to equip you in family discipleship for free, but we can only do that because of our faithful financial partners. Would you consider joining us? We’re a small and lean ministry, and we make your kingdom dollars go far. So head on over to thedisciplemakingparent.com/partner. Thank you for listening.
